Guns and bars don’t mix

Check out this video from the BBC, I don’t think it’ll let me embed it. A woman is claiming that her having a gun with her in the bar could’ve saved her husband’s life, after a stalker followed her into the bar where she runs a karaoke night and shot her husband dead earlier this year. This comes ahead of a new law which will allow registered gun users in Tennessee to carry loaded guns into bars and restaurants.

Now I didn’t really care until she came out with this line about halfway through the video: “you know I don’t care so much, about a bad guy’s life. I’m sorry, I don’t. They make the choice to do evil. That’s their choice.” To me this indicates a naive black and white perception of people, categorizing them into good and evil, as if it’s that simple.

So let’s look at her claims. Well, I’m skeptical that her having a gun would’ve saved her husband in the first place. Let’s say her stalker walks into the bar and suddenly pulls a gun. It takes half a second to kill her husband. Then she reaches for her gun and he shoots her as well, and we’ve got (at least) two body bags on the way out of the building. Having an extra gun there just escalates the situation needlessly.

But this is just this one relatively rare scenario where a stalker goes out looking to kill. What would happen to ordinary situations if guns were introduced? A guy’s at the bar and catches another guy checking out his girlfriend. Ordinarily if he’s had a few drinks he might go over and punch the guy in the face, but if he’s got a gun, there’s the possibility he’ll pull it, and then we’ve got a dead guy instead of a guy with a black eye, and then his friend pulls and gun and gets involved, and we’ve got how many dead people instead of one guy with a black eye. How many drunken disagreements and fights do you see in bars? Would you want to add guns to that situation? It may only be registered gun users who can take them in but so what? Who’s going to be checking on the door of every bar whether they have registration documents for their weapon, and it’s not like it’s difficult to be a registered user anyway!

Here’s the one I’m most concerned about though. A guy’s had a few too many and the barman refuses to give him any more. He takes this as a personal insult, as has happened several times to me personally, and pulls a gun. Is there any less appropriate place to allow guns than in a place that serves alcohol? When will this wannabe cowboys realise that having more guns is never going to solve the problem? All you have to do is look at their gun crime figures and see that most of those situations could’ve been prevented or would’ve been considerably less deadly if there’d been no guns involved at all.


11 Responses to Guns and bars don’t mix

  1. legallarmed says:

    This is the most rediculous article I have read to date on this subject. This shows that you have no value for anyone else’s viewpoint but your own simple minded conclusion of what you think happened. How about reading the police report before you draw a conclusion.

    You mention that you want to look at her claims, but you never do. You simply critisize what you think happened. How do you know it only takes a half second to kill her husband. Were you there?

    The point is that she was RESTRICTED from being allowed to exercise her right to defend herself or her family.

    This is just another poorly written anti-gun trash article.

  2. grammarking says:

    I never claimed that it did only take half a second to kill her husband, it was clearly a hypothetical scenario, as indicated by my use of the present tense. Certainly if he was trying to kill her husband, it would take him less time to kill him than it would take her to see it, react, pull her gun and pull the trigger.

    But this particular incident was only a stimulus for this post, it’s not the whole point. Do you have anything to say about the rest of my post? About the considerably more likely scenario that a drunk guy with a gun is much more dangerous than a drunk guy without one? Guns and alcohol don’t mix, I would’ve thought that would be obvious.

  3. legallyarmed says:

    I firmly believe that alcohol and guns do not mix. There has never been an agrument in contrast to that. And yes, I agree that a drunk with a gun is much more dangerous than a drunk without a gun. However, this scenario is very unlikely from a legally armed person. Although there is no guarantee that a legally aremed citizen would not do something as stupid as this, it is very inlikely. This would more likely be the act of some careless idiot and take place where guns are not allowed under the law in the first place.

    The intent of the bill is for carrying in restaurants that happen to serve alcohol, not a “beer joint” or “honky tonk”. The law clearly states that the serving of meals must be the primary business.

    The liberal media and anti-gun activists make us permit holders to be a careless bunch of rednecks looking for a reason to shoot someone. This could’t be further from the truth. We know that there could be criminal and/or civil lawsuits for our actions. This, along with training and continued practice, helps you quickly decide whether or not to pull your firearm from its holster. It is not a decision one takes lightly.

    I am really looking for someone to acknowledge that permit holders want to be responsible citizens who simply choose to wear a gun for protection and not destruction. If you choose not to carry a gun, then that is your right. But, why does that give anyone a reason to take away mine?

  4. Michael K Gray says:

    More guns to “solve” gun crime?
    Anyone who thinks that is the case is insane.

  5. grammarking says:

    Ok I’m clearly working on false information, the BBC article (which is all I’ve read, I’m in the UK, not the States) says the law will allow people to carry firearms “into bars and restaurants”.

    I have no doubt that there are responsible permit holders but from what I’ve heard it doesn’t sound too difficult to get a permit, and as I said, nobody is going to be checking on the door whether everyone has documentation, particularly since IIRC permit holders can carry concealed weapons in Tennessee.

    As for your wider point about your right to bear arms, as I said I’m not in the States but I consider the 2nd Amendment to be an outdated throwback to an unflexible constitution, and directly responsible for the gun crime figures in the States. Reducing the number of guns should be a high priority.

  6. legallarmed says:

    The venue definition is part of the problem here in Tennessee. The State of Tennessee has no legal definition for “bar”. It is strictly a term that you might call a pub. In order for a restaurant to obtain a license to sell liquor by the drink, it must serve meals and the sell of these meals must be greater than 50% of its business. Where this really gets complicated is that during the day most sports grills and restaurants, such as Red Lobster or Chili’s, are serving meals regularly and after about 9:00pm are serving mostly alcohol in the bar area. The bar area is usually separated from the dining area.

    The permit process here in Tennesse is first, you have to apply. Once you have applied, you will be set for finger printing. After finger printing is complete the state will perform a full FBI and TBI criminal background check looking specifically for felony, domestic violence, and even mental impairment charges and convictions. Any one of these will be reason for non-issueance of a permit. Other reasons would be more than two DUI in a five year period or a dishonorable discharge from the military. While the background check is being done, you have to attend an 8 hour firearms safety class including target qualification with a 75% accuracy out of 50 rounds of ammo. This being done by a licensed firearms instructor. If this is done successfully, you will be given a certificate that goes to the Tennessee Department of Public Saftety. All of this takes up to 90 days and costs $127.00US. The permit is good for 4 years and must be renewed by the same process. You do not have to re-qualify at the firing range.

    If the owner of any establishment wishes not to have firearms brought into his place of business, he can simply post a sign with the appropriate language stating that firearms are not allowed. It is then illegal to carry, permit or not.

    I disagree with you that our constitution is the cause of the gun crimes here is the US. Criminals are responsible for this. It is a proven fact that countries that ban firearms, will or do live under tyranny. Attempting to take guns away from law abiding citizens is what started the American Revolution. I firmly believe this would happen again if it is attempted. Criminals charged with violent crimes do not receive harsh enough punishment. In rare cases a person is sentenced to death. More and more states are abolishing capitol punishment in favor of over-crowding our prisons. This results is unwarranted early release for good behavior and another crime is committed shortly after release.

  7. grammarking says:

    Well that clarifies some things but it seems a lot needs to be cleared up before this comes (well, came now) into effect.

    However, “I disagree with you that our constitution is the cause of the gun crimes here is the US. Criminals are responsible for this. It is a proven fact that countries that ban firearms, will or do live under tyranny.”

    Right so, the UK, France, Germany, Australia, AFAIK all of Scandinavia, all these countries are tyrannical or will be? Moreso than the US? Riiight. You sound like this guy

  8. legallarmed says:

    You are right. Wrong choice of words. Maybe I should have said that tyrannical rule usually begins with the leadership taking away the freedoms of its citizens to possess firearms and free speech.

    I have been to the UK and many other places in Europe. I actually lived in Brindisi, Italy for three years while in the military. Beautiful countries, all of them. But I love the U.S. and all that it stands for. We have some domestic political issues, but we will evengually get them resolved. With that said, I value and have willfully defended the freedoms that our constitution guarantees us. Some may think that the ammendments to this constitution are outdated and some should be either abolished or revised. But, they are just as valid today as they were when they were written.

    • Alex Pryce says:

      Actually, the UK government took away citizens rights to bare arms decades ago, and we haven’t developed tyrannical rule. Gun crime will still happen whether there is gun control or not, but allowing people the “right” to carry a deadly weapon is ludicrous. We don’t even allow people to carry knives over here never mind a gun. If you NEED to have a gun then you should think about moving.

      It may be your right to carry a gun, but should you, just because you have the right to? Get rid of guns, gun crime WILL crop. You don;t need a gun if others are restricted from carrying themselves. It won;t stop, but it will drastically cut it.

      Look at all the other countries that have stopped their citizens carrying guns, it has not made the situation worse, but better. The right to carry guns was added at a time when it was quite common practice and you have to change and evolve. You can’t live in the past just because oyu like your shiny boom stick.

  9. grammarking says:

    I have no problem with you loving your country but don’t pretend it stands for something that no other country does. Your constitution is based on the ideas of the Enlightenment and Romantics, which were bouncing around Europe long before anywhere else.

    Certainly tyrannical regimes do censor speech, but I fail to see how you link banning firearms into that. Whilst we’re on the subject, I should also mention that many of those countries that have restricted the use of firearms are ranked very highly in terms of press freedom by Reporters Sans Frontiers, in many cases much higher than the US (

    You’ll notice, looking at other bills of rights, such as the Declaration of Human Rights, that the right to bear arms is not included. Most of the rest of the western world has realised that it’s outdated and unnecessary. The US is still to catch up.

  10. legallarmed says:

    Why are you insinuating that I pretend anything? I was merely making a statement that the US is my home and I love what it stands for. I did not say anything about it being the same or different from what any other country stands for.

    For some reason, you think that I am asking you to agree with me or accept my views. I am not. You wrote this article without really having all of the facts. I was simply challenging you and providing what I believe are important facts. As for Nikki Goesner and the events that took place that dreadful evening, here is a link to what happened.

    You are the one that said that our outdated and unflexible constituion was the cause of our gun crimes figures. Regarless of how you feel, right now we have a right to bear arms. To me, the increase in gun crimes are directly related to cultural changes in society. In other words, in the inner cities of the US, drugs and gang activity seem to be the major cause for increased gun crimes. However, in the more rural areas of the country, there is very little gun crime. I didn’t say there were none, but very few. So, I fail to see how our constitution is directly related to our gun crime figures.

    The 27 Ammendments to our Constitution are the basis for laws here in the US. They were not intended to influence internation law. Internationally, the Declaration of Human Rights shouldn’t have anything about the right to bear arms. That should be or not be a right locally within ones own borders. If others in the western world feel that theirs is outdated, then fine. That has nothing to do with us. We choose to keep it.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: